Posts by not a captive

127

LOVE your ENEMIES: where Jesus goes wrong

by Terry in

matthew 5:44 "but i say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,.

luke 6:35 "but love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return.

the most radical teaching attributed to jesus has implications if followed.. an invading hoarde of mongols would not be resisted.. a christian husband would not only allow his wife and daughters to be raped; he would be compelled to forgive the rapist, pray for him and offer.

not a captive

I have a question about loving yor enemy.

Do you think it is okay to run from someone you love because they only want to hurt you?

How about an abusive spouse or parent. Isn't it alright to run?

Jesus healed the servant of the Roman officer but didn't he tell his followers to run when the Roman armies came to injure and further dominate the Jews of Jerusalem?

If we are "wise as serpents and innocent as doves" we do use common sense.

If someone is simply aggressing us as part of a mob and only see us as a faceless mob it is our job to change that as much as possible. First we have to see them as an individual human being so we don't make them an enemy in our heart. Then we look for an opportunity for them to know us as an individual human being.

Jesus and the Samaritan woman was such a moment . He surprised her with basic human decency and interest. Not condescending to her.

That was a successful moment of Jesus lovingly reaching past the walls of prejudice and the woman reaching back.. But it doesn't always happen that way. And your individual actions do not change the whole world.

Later Jesus going to Jerusalem receives not even minimum hospitality from a Samaritan village that he desired to stay in overnight on his way to Jerusalem. The Samaritans take up their traditional stance as "enemies" just because Jesus doesn't intend to camp on them during the advent to Passover and they wanted evidence that he was now throwing over to "the Samaritan side" (People don't seem to want peace in a feud. They seem to want domination. That is a problem for me too). And Jesus' disciples likewise pick up their old "enemy" view of Samaritans and want to go "old testament" on them. James and John say: "Lord, do you want us to call down fire from heaven to burn them up?" But Jesus turned and rebuked them, and they went off into another village.

I have found that Jesus was pretty real about what he expected for his followers. But there is no pleasing some. Christians who make the decision not to live by the sword are accused of cowardice or foolishness. But I find them to be the true pragmatists. Engage with people individually when you can but if you cannot-- leave the scene as Jesus advises (Matthew 10:23). One thing is certain--killing an enemy doesn't eliminate them. It only makes more.

127

LOVE your ENEMIES: where Jesus goes wrong

by Terry in

matthew 5:44 "but i say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,.

luke 6:35 "but love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return.

the most radical teaching attributed to jesus has implications if followed.. an invading hoarde of mongols would not be resisted.. a christian husband would not only allow his wife and daughters to be raped; he would be compelled to forgive the rapist, pray for him and offer.

not a captive

I am going to talk about what we are calling an enemy.

It seems that Jesus spoke words for "enemy" that were rooted in the idea of hating another: Our hate makes the enemy.

The problems I deal with in daily living makes Jesus' teaching especially useful. Getting rid of hatred in a situation is useful. Throwing out fear is also useful and likewise difficult.

Jesus was giving us some really practical advice. Most of what we deal with is personal, more or less. We see the face of our enemy. We may know their name. That is what make us hate them. That is what causes trauma. What they do is personal.

War is not thought of as personal. Yet a book titled On Killing speaks of the greater difficulty war victims have overcoming the horror of injury the more personal it is. Psychologists surveyed war victims in two groups, those whose injuries and loss of family members were as results of say the fire bombing of Dresden and those who had attackers come at them face-to-face. It should not surprise us that those who actually faced the humans who hurt them suffered deeper horror and greater emotional damage than those whose attackers were distant and injured them less directly, almost incidently.

I know that of the physical assaults or threats I've been around, the best outcomes have followed if I can give a rational and peaceful response. If I can demonstrate that I have no intention to do an aggressor harm then they may become reasonable and peaceful. Extend that much consideration to a person and there is a better outcome. I may keep from cultivating ugly feelings about them.

Jesus didn't hate the hater and we don't have to hate and fear each other. But neither do we have to expose ourselves to blind violence by going where there is rampant violence. But if violence does come to us, try to personalize it with kindness and honesty instead of fear and hatred. Don't let hate and fear make you turn someone into an enemy.

6

Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus died for their sins?

by ThomasCovenant in

having only been a witness for about 30 years i'm not really sure about the answer.

i would say 'yes' but does anyone know further.. i'm aware of the 'mediator only for the 144,00', but am i correct in saying the wts agrees, and by default all witnesses agree, that jesus died for their sins?.

not a captive

It's gotta be by grace.

In a topic presented by Terry a few weeks ago there was a debate between a couple of theologians on the inerrancy or infallibility of the scriptures but a chief bit of information was the fact that there was no written body of doctrine during the first 15 years after Jesus' death. So there was no "What Does God Require" brochure. Just grateful sinners who may have done a lot of spontaneous talking.

If it were so complicated then the Roman jailer in Acts who had only part of one night to learn about Jesus' reconciling act wouldn't have made it. (He had to have time to get baptized too.... he and his whole household with him)

Nope, it had to be simple and grace is simple.

After that we have to be honest with God and ourselves.

25

Jehovah Witnesses- True Christians?

by rich5678 in

what do you say to people outside the religion that say jehovah witnesses are the only true christians and they are the only group that follow the bible as opposed to other reilgions?

i see these comments on youtube about videos that addressed the issue with the policy jws follow today.

i am not bitter but i thought if you think that jehovah witnesses are true christians and follow the bible, why not join the group?

not a captive

If the JWs were true Christians they would follow Christ. Instead they believe that no one can understand Jesus but the FDS. So following the FDS is just the same as following Christ. Because you can't really follow Christ unless you stop trying and follow the FDS instead. You get it?

159

Getting into Arguments with JW's...

by ForbiddenFruit in

i'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.

now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.

if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.

not a captive

MadJ, Sorry I seemed to drop out. Am considering our discussion,how to get it off high center. Also my job taking care of a little boy with CP has been particularly wearing this past week. And I'm going to have to move at the end of the month after my youngest gradutes HS in a couple of weeks. However, this dialog is certainly an exchange that stays present in my thoughts and I hope to give you your due in the next day or so.

I wouldn't just drop out so rudely as that. Maeve

74

607 B.C.E. - A Trip To The Local Library! With Pictures!

by mentallyfree31 in

watchtower says 607 bce.

i decided to dig into this matter myself at the public library yesterday.

i examined every book i could find that contained facts about jerusalem.

not a captive

Thanks for doing the homework on this, mentallyfree. If the WTS believes it stands on facts then they must let this information sink them. But facts are not what floats their boat (not that faith floats it either or they wouldn't tyrannize people who follow Jesus). Faith is not the sum of numbers.

43

Do you remember the moment that you stopped believing that it was "The Truth"?

by freeflyingfaerie in

jw
friends

was there one incident or epiphany that struck you hard?

or was it a slow...gradual awakening (no pun)?.

my coming out of the jw coma (as i like to call it) began at a family rendezvous in the beautiful florida gulf coast.

not a captive

It was Bible reading that got me in trouble and got me out.

The first time they called on me a brother told me that we have to pray the right way to have your prayers heard by God. I told him that wasn't the way the book of Acts had it with the Roman centurian Cornelius. God heard him before Peter even thought of coming to see him. I told the brother that when a person is really seeking, God does listen. Cornelius was just was open to God. I told him that God had answered my prayers before I ever knew he had a name.

I didn't realize that if the brother had pressed that point while I stuck to that single statement, it would have overthrown my study, would have prevented my capture. 21 years later even so small an idea as that one is not allowed in a witness's brain if it runs against the grain of the FDS's literature. They say you have to pray using God's name and have a clear understanding of the "truth" about him before he listens. And they won't let you believe any different.

Then I found the entire theology of Jehovah's Witnesses is summed in three words: Faithful Discreet Slave. Not Jesus, not Jehovah, not even the Bible. Just the Corporation.

It took a year. I didn't know when I started that it would end this way. I had a brother tell me point blank to my question," Might I answer a certain question using the Bible instead of the literature?" The brother said "No" and the other two wouldn't contradict his statement. (Although one refused to answer when I asked if he agreed with Bro.---'s statement) It began unraveling fast then. I had to write the Branch and discuss that with the Brothers. But I could see that I was dealing with a Corporation. By the time I sent in my letter of disassociation I was thoroughly disgusted with the corruption of faith that they tried to work on their members.

But I must have stpped believing it was the "truth" after the first meeting when that one told me to use the literature over the Bible. When I cleaned house that week I found that the sight of the literature disturbed and revolted me. I couldn't keep it in the house anymore. I despised it.

Maeve

65

Making the leap - lurker to member - Hello!

by Hadit in

jw
friends

ive been lurking here for the past couple of months since i started researching the organization.

i dont have many people to talk to and its been a saving grace to read your posts.. i dont really know where to start so here i go.

its been a long journey getting here and it looks as if i still have a long ways to go to get somewhere healthy, stable and strong.

not a captive

Hello Hadit,

It's great to have the freedom to TALK.

To say what you think whether it is "right" or "wrong".

I hope your family notices how happy true freedom of religion makes you.

Maeve

159

Getting into Arguments with JW's...

by ForbiddenFruit in

i'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.

now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.

if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.

not a captive

Of course Abraham didn't understand at the time --that is precisely the point! Abraham had to attempt a new command. Abraham was the agent of change that Jehovah used, MadJ.

I don't claim an insight that Abraham didn't teach to "those of his household" when he wrote the account. The insight he had came after Jehovah intervened. There had to be a first time the concept was defined. Gen. 18:19

None of us could have understood what Jehavah was asking of us without this amazing experience.How would Jephthah understand what a true burnt offering was? See, for Abraham it wasn't an empty gesture as he co related it with the only point of reference he had at that time--killing. But the point was spiritual not carnal. Living for Christ is dying to ourselves. And you and I are supposed to be a burnt offering in just the same way that Isaac was. Roman 12:1,2 shows that this is so.

You know MadJ, the brothers that dealt with me were kind with only a few lapses. I have said as much. They recognized the name of God was more important to me than anything else. The references from the Bible and also the larger context of his giving his son but not killing his son is the accurate reading of John 3:16.

What the scriptures actually have written would free Jehovah from the mire of contradictory interpretations, the lies that exist in all churches--not just the Witnesses--about God capriciously abandoning of the principles he was trying to teach us humans. Most people inside and outside the churches don't trust the old testament God.

The real issue in the end was that the brothers couln't let simple reliance on the Bible and Holy Spirit would allow a person to understand what Abraham had obviously conveyed to others. Jephthah got it, Jesus got it, Paul got it and doubtess many others. Why am I not allowed to understand it?

They made it clear that the issue was not Jehovah--for they were not concerned nor did they address that. They wanted me to wait for the Slave to say it.

Thanks for the agape--same to you. Maeve

20

I'm Very Encouraged...

by Cthulhu in

jw
friends

by the fact that in under one day we have 2 new members on the board, hadit and thor.

that people are leaving that nutty religion and doing so in a rather public manner is a wonderful thing so far as i am concerned.

if you two happen to read this, hadit and thor, please know that seeing you here has made my day!.

not a captive

Great!